No Something. No Another Thing. No Something Else.

Blast from the Past (2.0) : My Thoughts on the Closing of the Big Mango Bar and The Evolution of The Girl Scene in Thailand (by BigBabyKenny)

Posted by RealDaffyDuck on April 14, 2010

With Kenny’s recent article over an BBK.COM as a classic example of one econ teacher’s spiraling descent into self-destructive insanity, it might be worth bringing this ‘Blast from the Past’ article back from its own past – just to demonstrate how very different  the relationship between CSUN’s Prof. Kenneth Ng and the Mango Guys – Graham, Michael Smith (now at, and the others – used to be. Hard to believe that one small edit to an article of his resulted in him turning himself into the kind of dedicated detractor, and vituperative hater that he has become, as of late. Sad, really…  Read on (again)

Once again, the crack BDK-CLIT team (fueled by Lipo and Mango Burgers) has outdone itself, and dragged up a true literary jewel ‘Blast from the Past’ — an original Thesis Quality Essay by our own Prof. Kenneth Ng, writing as BigBabyKenny, about the Big Mango Bar, and its various owners and investor.

Yet, those of you expecting the daily dose of hatred and passive aggressive venom that you are used to seeing from Kenny, will be surprise. Very surprised, in fact, to see Kenny dish out veritable laudations, and words of encouragement to the Mangoids — wishing them well, hoping they find a new and better venue, to live to fight another day, and to have the veritable last laugh.

Well, it does appear as if all of his wishes have come true.

(in fact, he even acknowledges the ‘exceptional business acumen’ that Smitty and Pmmp have… honest, you can read it all below)

My Thoughts on the Closing of the Big Mango Bar and the Evolution of the Girl Scene in Thailand

by BigBabyKenny at The FARANG Speaks 2 Much

The closing of The Big Mango and the recent internet commentary about the allegedly sad state of Nana, Soi Cowboy, and Patpong might leave Thailand fans despondent.

But unlike other internet commentators, I believe there is no cause for alarm. The girl scene is alive and well, as large and dynamic as it ever was.

What is occurring is the natural and predictable evolution of the scene as it responds to external market forces—-in this case the dictatorial Thai government and the corrupt Thai police.

The bars and GoGo’s in Nana, Patpong, and Soi Cowboy that employ the barfine business model are uniquely vulnerable to being held up by the Thai government and police. Because they must operate out of fixed locations and only certain locations are approved for this type of business, the government and police have the ability to tax or extort money from them—which of course they are happy to do.

The police can show up, demand any amount of money, and the bar or GoGo owner has two choices, knuckle and pay or close for business.

The government can show up, threaten all types of cost increasing regulation, demand any amount of money, and the bar or GoGo owner has two choices, knuckle and pay or close for business.

It is true that in both these situations, the police or government can miscalculate and demand so much money that the bar or GoGo owner is better off closing his business, which is what appears to have happened to the Big Mango, but in most cases, the amount demanded will approximate the owner’s profits, leaving just enough to keep the business open, operating, and generating profit—which the police and government will quickly and happily extort.

The only situation in which an owner can make money is to perform better than people expect. When an owner signs a lease, the rent is set so the landowner captures the expected profits a normal owner would generate during the term of the lease. The owner can make money for a limited period of time if for some reason, e.g. the owner is exceptionally talented at running his business, he earns more than the predicted profit.

Of course, when the term of the lease expires and the rent must be renegotiated the landlord will reset the rent to capture the newly revealed higher profit. This is probably what led to the demise of the Big Mango Bar.
In most industries and developed countries, a business can escape this situation by signing a long term lease, signing a lease with a pre-negotiated renewal price, or by simply moving his business down the street to an alternative location with a different landlord.

Normally, competition among landlords limits or eliminates this type of predatory behavior.

Because the beerbar and GoGo business is limited to certain areas, owner’s options in the Beerbar and GoGo business are limited and they are uniquely vulnerable to predatory landlords, corrupt policeman, and government regulators.

In this environment, you wouldn’t expect the owners to pour much capital into improving their business. If they do spend money on capital improvements which lead to more profits, the profits will simply be hijacked at the next police visit or lease expiration.

This explains the generally run down state of the bars in Nana, Patpong, and Soi Cowboy. Only an idiot would pour tons of money into the physical setup of a business that might be forced to close tomorrow because every dollar spent increases the leverage the police and government have over the owner. It is more profitable to keep a rundown beat up bar that one could lock up, close down, and walk away from tomorrow without any financial consequences.

This line of thought might lead one to despair for the future of the Thailand girl scene but do not forget that people are intelligent, creative and history is replete with examples of people avoiding or finding some way of neutralizing the predations of a corrupt government.

I believe this has already happened in Thailand.

Most of us know that the best TG’s, the most TG’s, and the best prices and terms in the TG market are not found at Beerbars and GoGo’s.

Beerbars and GoGo’s are fine for the clueless tourist with a 3 day Bangkok vacation or for simply dropping into and looking at the girls, but most of us with a little experience and more time to spend in Thailand find their TG’s in other venues and locations.

I have no personal knowledge, but I would be willing to bet that most of Smitty and pmmp’s TG friends are freelancers they met at venues outside Nana, Soi Cowboy, or Patpong. Like any intelligent, knowledgeable farang, including myself, they meet their TG’s where quality and price is best—-the Freelancer Market.

The great feature about the Freelancer Market is that there is no way for the police to extort it, the government to tax or regulate it, or an unrestrained landlord to divert its income stream.

If the police showed up at Gullivers, the Beergarten, or the Thermae, and their extortionate demands force their closing, the girls and the farangs would just move down the street to another bar and the market would continue to operate as before. Sure the owners of these places would be worse off, but the girls and the farangs would be unaffected.

I believe most of the Girl Scene has already migrated out of the Beerbars and GoGo’s into the Freelancer Market and the Freelancer Market has spread so that it covers Bangkok like a fine layer of dust in an old house. TG’s who want to bang farangs can be found at Pantip Plaza, MBK, Sukhumvit outside the Thermae, and up and down Rachada.

Happily there is no way for the police or the Thai government to outlaw, tax, or even regulate these venues. They will continue to exist and thrive no matter what the Thai government or police do and IMHO are as healthy dynamic and fun to participate in as they ever were and will continue to be so into the foreseeable future.

On closing note, I would like to say to pmmp and Smitty—Do Not Despair.

The moronic rapacious Nana landlords, the corrupt Thai Police, and the despotic Thai government have not taken or diminished your most valuable asset. You still possess what allowed you to start from scratch and build the Big Mango Bar into the success and all around great fun place to patronize it was.

Still intact is what will allow you to reinvent and restart The Big Mango on a sounder foundation and build it into something larger, greater, and, of course most importantly, more profitable than The Big Mango bar ever was (maybe you should consider calling the new place The Huge Mango Bar).

You walk away with your creativity, imagination, entrepreneurial spirit and exceptional business acumen still in your possession.

You are like the soldiers who abandoned their arms and equipment when they escaped the invading Nazi’s at Dunkirk—the soldiers who got back to England, regrouped, rearmed, and returned to Continental Europe on D-day—the soldiers who ultimately annihilated Hitler, defeated the Nazi’s hordes, got the hugely enjoyable and well deserved last laugh, and got to bang all the grateful newly liberated French babes.


29 Responses to “Blast from the Past (2.0) : My Thoughts on the Closing of the Big Mango Bar and The Evolution of The Girl Scene in Thailand (by BigBabyKenny)”

  1. SBDOTKU said

    Who is this guy and what did you do with BBK?

    Obviously this is a classic example of “on meds” writing, while most of his more recent diatribes would be an example of “look ma, no meds!” writing.

  2. Daywalker said

    Oh no… moRonru will have a heart attack if he reads that.


    • Yep, I wonder how he’ll explain that… oh, wait, he won’t have to, he doesn’t read this loser site. I forgot.

      Must be one of his roomates reading it then, from his computer, with his IP.

  3. BangkokMilkshakes said

    im intrigued to read that there are freelancers readily available at Pantip Plaza. Unless by freelancer, kenny meant ‘porn dvd’….which i guess wouldnt suprise me…..

  4. adman said

    I am at a loss here. I don’t know if this a parody piece or the real thing.

    Did BBK actually write this? Where’d you find it?

    Good work either way.

    • Yes, BBK actually wrote this.

      It was originally posted at (i.e. – I picked it up from another blog / forum where it was cross-posted to.

      (Yes, my Goog-Fu is strong 🙂

      It is kinda grotesque, isn’t it?

      It undermines every single statement and argument he makes nowadays.

    • Daywalker said


      You should know that before his Shrine post was pulled, BBK always visited the Mango & Duke of Wellington. I saw him many times talking to the girls with a huge camera strapped to his neck. He’s even on some of the photos taken at the Duke & Mango.

  5. BangkokMilkshakes said

    im suprised you had time to notice details like that what with the Third Reich swarming all over the place…

  6. BangkokMilkshakes said

    you didnt catch the strange Nazi references at the end of Kenny’s post Daffy?…..

    • Oh, that… I just attributed that to both the Schnitzel he’s probably had before writing it, and the overly authoritative upbringing at the hands of his parents, that he’s suffered.

      I’m from Europe – we don’t notice strange nazi references 😉

    • … and apparently some *other* two commenters loved to drag up Nazi references, and one of them still frequently does (well, same guy, different names).

  7. BangkokMilkshakes said

    whenever Kenny drops the authoritarian style and tries something a little more footloose, its always wildly innapropriate. Unless of course you really do feel that the relocating of the mango bar to a new location actually WAS similar to the liberation of France from the tyranny of Hitler…

  8. Purple Sky said

    Kenny Ng = 😳 😳 😳

  9. Daywalker said

    ronru says:
    Feb-22 at 4:40 am

    Seeing that Werewolf is too sacred to open his mouth I’m wondering what commenter Prufrock thinks of the thugs associated with the money losing Big Mango bar who published his picture (twice !) for the whole world to see, asking readers to provide his personal details and refer to him (and Werewolf) as Nazis that should be killed !

    Their *crime* ? Being friend with Kenny.
    Quote from BDK: “blind solidarity deserves punishment as well. In WWII the Germans that followed Hitler were still Nazi’s and were killed.”

    And to make matters worse the owner of the Big Mango bar / whorehouse, who invested and and lost 300,000USD in the Soi 4 business (and slowly pissing away the rest of his money haha hoho), encourages the violence.

    Quote from BDK: Karmako….I do like your ‘lets get the fucker’ attitude.
    Comment by Daywalker | February 16, 2010

    The said dumb ass fat bald owner, who hides behind the screen name Daywalker, and his ass licking cronies don’t have the balls to respond and are hoping for the topic to just go away but its NOT going to disappear !

    How does anyone dare to compare Werewolf (whose father fought in WW2) and Prufrock to Nazis and incite retarded commenters to take the law into their hands is beyond comprehension.
    Incitement for violence is a serious crime punishable by law and if I were in Werewolf or Prufrock shoes, I’d refer the matter to the Thai police and press charges.


    moRonru.. when are you going to learn to read. Or befriend an adult and ask them to read to you?

    I’ve not, and have never crossed Prufrock. But I don’t expect you to believe me, so I’ll let you ask him.
    – After which, I expect an apology.

    It’s no secret that I don’t like Kenny. You come a close second, but as for Prufers and WW. Well, lets just say that they know the truth, so that’s all that matters. You my son, do not matter.

    Also, where do you get the sum of 300k from? Is it the same source that wrote all the lies that have now been exposed? The one and only Kenny, formerly a frequent customer of the Mango & Duke?

    If you could prove that I even lost half of what you say, I’ll double that and give it to a charity of your choice. I assume you represent a charity. You should, as you are a shining example of someone who needs some kind of help in many ways.

    Tell me, if Kenny wrote that he loves us all again, and that he realized he’s been a silly boy and wants to come and play with us again, would you follow suit?

    You truly are dumb. You call me dumb, and if you are right, then how dumb can I be if I can earn 300k just to be thrown away? You my little friend, can only manage a holiday in BKK once in a blue moon. Who’s the dumbass now?

    You are just a kid.

    Don’t try and mix it up with the grown-ups. You only make yourself look even dumber.


  10. Purple Sky said

    ronru = 😆 😆 😆

  11. Daywalker said

    Right then… I need some advice on this whole 911 thing.

    I have a road trip coming up and I am not sure if I should buy the GT2, GT3 or just a normal Turbo?

  12. Nightstalker said

    Well, Mr. Kenneth Ng seems not to be able to distinguish between facts and expectations/opinions. He expected TFS2M would publish all his posts, but no one ever said to him they would always do so.. I assume. His expecations were shattered, not some promises made to him. Big difference.

    He is now often saying on his site that the new website of the BM Bar would be “new and improved” as he is quoting and ranting about it not being “improved”.

    “New” say said, but new doesn’t mean better or worse. The word “improved” I wasn’t able to find anywhere. I only found this quote: “…we will be working on a new direction for our websites. These new changes will be rolled out early January when we come back from Hiatus.” So Mr. Ng makes a wrong quote. He is lying (again).

    Mr. Ng is not only lying constantly (about barfine quotas at the present BM Bar, ownerships, revenue, etc.) but also making assumptions and false expections that are of course gonna be shattered cos they weren’t based on any facts to begin with. And then he is lamenting about how dishonest and disguiseful people are.

    He has wrong expectations and then blames others when they are not met. What a stupid stupid cunt. And liar, of course.

    Oh, and I am just a customer who has been to the BM Bar often enough to tell when Mr. Ng is lying and when not. Does that make me a “Burgerboy”? 😉

    • Odd – sounds a lot like Prufrock. No wonder they are such good friends, and no surprise Prufrock has become Kenny’s lapdog, spewing his own version of verbal diarrhea, ad nauseam.

  13. Daywalker said

    And, of course, the ultimate irony is that they don’t want any photographs of Reservation Girls on their website because Nick and Michael deny they run a house of prostitution—deny that they employ young poor girls whose condition of employment and receiving their monthly salary is that they must have sex with 5 of their customers every month and each time one of the poor young girls they hire is forced to have sex with a customer, the customer must pay Nick and Michael $15 USD.

    Further, if their customer doesn’t want to take the girl back to their room, they can rent the short time room on the third floor of the Big Mango Bar for an additional $9 USD paid directly into Nick and Michael’s pocket.


    Ha!! Excellent!! Kenny really has a vivid imagination! Like we didn’t know that already?

    It is quite clear that Kenny is trying to provoke some kind of response from my Parners. The fact that they are way above Kenny the pathetic loser just gets to him more!! It’s hilarious!! He keeps dreaming up more crap and figures!! The guys get $15?!!? Is that each? Or between them? I’d better ask them where my cut is? Oh hang on, didn’t we sell up? Kenny, Kenny, Kenny, please pick a story and stick to it!! You are such an idiot!!

    And as for the short time room?? Where exactly is that? I guess you are just gutted that you never get to go through a door marked ‘private’.

    Oh, and as for forcing poor girls into having sex with people??! Ha! Kenny, you know this is not true, and I am bored of correcting you. You have no credibility, no one belives any of the crap that you spout.

    But remember this Kenny…. YOU are a sex tourist!! YOU have a (hate site) about having sex with ‘poor girls’ for the least amount of money!! You really are a piece of work!!

    It’s no wonder your world is closing in on you.


  14. JAUNA (Just Another Unemployed Northridge Alum) said

    Kenny says: “Like any intelligent, knowledgeable farang, including myself…” No Thai will ever refer to an Asian as a farang.

    Ronru asks: “How does anyone dare to compare Werewolf (whose father fought in WW2) to Nazis?” Why does is matter what war your father fought in? You don’t think any neo-Nazi has a veteran father? And by the way, millions of people worth comparing to Nazis had fathers who fought in WW2. Their fathers fought for Germany.

    On a different subject, if anyone is interested in not learning about microeconomic principles on Monday nights or money and banking on Tuesday nights, they can go to a 4th rate Uni waaaaaay up I-405 in the San Fernando Valley, Porn Center of the Universe:

  15. So, now ronru and Kenny have decided to target Werewolf. I guess WW’s recent posts painting not just the Big Mango Bar in a good light, but the owners as well, must have Kenny pretty pissed off:

    haha hoho says:
    Feb-23 at 9:08 am
    These expats are so close to the line ( that they cant even afford to visit a doctor for a simple eye infection and are relegated to wait, mostly standing up, for hours on end in an over crowded Thai public hospital.

    I guess all that “Friends can disagree, and still be friends…” was just a one-way BBK street as well. It’s okay for Kenny to bash on WW (“we’re friends, and we can disagree”) but if WW dares voice his personal unbiased opinion on a bar and its owners waaaaaay down Soi 4, and it doesn’t agree with Kenny — well, then all bets are off, and the bullying starts (albeit, I’m quite certain that WW doesn’t lose sleep over it – my personal opinion, and speculation only, of course).

    Kinda sad he’s trying to drag someone into this who doesn’t want anything to do with this sandbox fight. Well, that’s Kenny for you — just not satisfied until all the bridges are burnt, eh?

  16. Dana White said

    Hehe managed to figure that one.
    The reason Werewolf is sucking up to Mangoids.
    1 up ronru !!!

    ronru says:
    Feb-23 at 6:21 am
    Protonic & Inquiring Mind,

    I doubt if Werewolf gets any freebies or special treatment in the Big Mango bar and reading carefully his blog he always mentions settling the bill before leaving.

    IMO the sudden favorable reports are the result of Werewolf trying his out most to appease the thugs associated with the above mentioned money losing bar, in the hope they will not carry their threats to harm him because of his close friendship with Kenny.

    Let me tell you, the suck up posts were clearly not there in the past.

    In the now deleted Wicked Traveler Werewolf wrote a very lukewarm review of the Big Mango bar and posted in his blog a full damming report with regard to the appalling service he experienced at the Duke Of Wellington (a money losing English pub in Silom owned by the same mob as the Big Mango bar).

    Read this:


      I don’t think WW has ever written suck up posts (love the terminology), but I’ve always seen his blog more as ‘writing as he sees it’. In this case, he *did* spend 7 hours in the Big Mango, and he recounted what he saw – nothing wrong with that, is there?

      Similarly, I have no reason to doubt that the owners of the Big Mango have been helpful to him in the past, with free advice and sharing from their business experience. I mean, Kenny himself has acknowledged that the Big Mango Bar owners have “… creativity, imagination, entrepreneurial spirit and exceptional business acumen (…) in (their) possession.”

      Can’t ask for a better reference, can we? Additionally, having met them as well, I can’t disagree with WW’s impression — the guys I have met have been friendly, helpful, and filled with joy-de-vivre.

      Don’t really know or understand what Kenny’s problem with them is (after all, he wrote the article copied in this post; or what ronru’s problem is (who has admitted to never having been to the bar, or met any of those guys); or Prufrock’s problem (who has always been referred to by those guys in a respectful and friendly manner). All I know is that with that kind of attitude, these two have certainly worn out their welcome.

  17. Dana White said

    I’ll nominate for Nobel peace prize the person who makes up between Kenny and the mango brothers !

  18. MongerSEA said

    That last paragraph is so very wrong it could only have been written by its author.

  19. Cherrycola said


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